ESPN's "Sound Bite" Bites!
ESPN spent all day Saturday promoting a show on Reggie White and using one of his sound bites: “Homosexuality is a decision not a race.”
I must have heard it 40 times as the sound bite popped up through out the day. It was making me insane. All I could think of was the masses of men (and women) who were tuned in to the football games and getting this surprise brain washing as they watched.
Bad enough White said that foolish statement, it was horrid of ESPN to select those words to repeat over and over again. I am flummoxed as to why ESPN would select that quote to promote.
Maybe White was a good football player, but he sure didn’t know shit about homosexuality.
No one makes a decision to be homosexual just as no one makes a decision to be heterosexual.
I feel like I have to write this down forty times to counteract the damage ESPN has done by using that insipid sound bite at every commercial timeout. What were they thinking? I hope they were just being stupid rather than diabolical.
ESPN spent all day Saturday promoting a show on Reggie White and using one of his sound bites: “Homosexuality is a decision not a race.”
I must have heard it 40 times as the sound bite popped up through out the day. It was making me insane. All I could think of was the masses of men (and women) who were tuned in to the football games and getting this surprise brain washing as they watched.
Bad enough White said that foolish statement, it was horrid of ESPN to select those words to repeat over and over again. I am flummoxed as to why ESPN would select that quote to promote.
Maybe White was a good football player, but he sure didn’t know shit about homosexuality.
No one makes a decision to be homosexual just as no one makes a decision to be heterosexual.
I feel like I have to write this down forty times to counteract the damage ESPN has done by using that insipid sound bite at every commercial timeout. What were they thinking? I hope they were just being stupid rather than diabolical.
posted by mary bishop | 8:13 AM
23 Comments:
I can't even speak about the ignorance of people where homosexuality is concerned. For one, get the FUCK out of other people's business. Who cares who sleeps with who?
First off, you evil judgemental people, NO ONE wants to hit on your sorry ass so get over it. Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they are frothing at the mouth whenever they see someone of the same sex. Chances are oh judger, you will never be lucky enough to be hit on by someone of the same sex, they aren't interested in who your sleeping with, so leave sexuality out of it!
You can find the answer YOU WANT in anything. Look on the internet, you will find the slant your looking for just as you can find something to fit your narrow-thinking brain in the bible. If you were really a good person, you wouldn't be judging, condemning or spouting off YOUR beliefs. You'd be doing unto others as they do to you.
I won't continue going on and on here but grrr.....this makes me so mad.
I watched "IN and OUT" on TV yesterday and was reminded of some of the really good points from that movie. Ex: the part where the supporters of Kevin Klein's character stand up and sarcastically state that they all turned gay, merely after their dealings with him.
Being gay isn't a lifestyle or a choice. Who would choose to be the object of rampant ridicule and ignorance?
I wish these frightfully ignorant people would stop making judgments and statements upon things that they are either too afraid of or too puriently interested in - to properly and honestly understand.
Being gay means you generally connect with, are attracted to and love members of the same sex. It does not mean you are more sexual or more adventurous or lecherous or more purient or more deviant in the bedroom. It's actually less about the bedroom than it is about the love and life.
Gay couples experience the same degree of sexuality, the same sexual practices (anatomy permitting) and the same life issues etc. that straight couples experience. The only difference is they do it with same sex partners.
Gay people don't recruit straight people.
Gay people don't cast magic gay spells on straight people.
Gay people don't think about sex any more than straight people.
Gay people don't want any special treatment but want the same rights as straight people.
Gay people are historically common and it wasn't until "modern times" that it was viewed (Catholically) as a bad thing.
Let's get real and modern and get off the fascination with what people do or don't do in their bedrooms or whom they do it with.
Real problems and issues. Homelessness, Hunger, National Security, FEMA and Gov't Preparedness and the First family's inabilty to articulate ... These are real issues.
Thank you Acumamkiki and Laurenbove for your comments on this issue.
There are numerous hateful groups, religions, people, etc who flood the net with horrid untruths about homosexuality and I do believe it is my job to combat these falsehoods when I see them.
My very best friends will be getting hitched October first when the civil union law takes place in our state.
This is not enough for me - I want them to be married just like I am. But it is at least some protection for them so I celebrate their special day.
I love these men with all my heart and cannot and will not let allow them to be maligned by the ignorant or evil.
In a week we are going to P-town on vacation with our friends, and I look forward to the wonderful time I know I will have in the company of these wonderful people.
I did not see the ESPN story. I am surprised they would actually use that quote. Reggie White was an incredible football player. He also from what I remember (being a Philly native)had a big heart and was about helping the community. I hate the fact that ESPN would air that quote. He did so many other good things as well. But he was a man. He had flaws. I am amazed by the fact that he was motivated to teach people that race should not matter but then would make a movement to protest homosexuality.
And to quote Acumam "If you were really a good person, you wouldn't be judging, condemning or spouting off YOUR beliefs. You'd be doing unto others as they do to you."
I won't bash Reggie White. I wouldn't want to be bashed. I would want to be remembered for the good I did. I think ESPN should not have run with that piece. The man had good qualities as well.
ESPN sucks. I like what you wrote William. It bespeaks a moderate view and a warm heart. Well done and well put.
BTW: acumama already knows how much i jive with her on most things. Great minds think alike, right? =)
What was ESPN thinking? How completely illogical. But then if you look at the degradation of so many things in our country, it doesn't surprise me. When did the news start voicing their editorial comments, mixed in with actual news?
William, I don't know the man at all - He apparently did say that sound bit and why ESPN chose to play it every ten minutes or so is totally beyond me.
I have written to ESPN - but I did once before and never heard back.
Paintergirl, when news channels started to be 24 hours a day, seven days a week, they had to start to make up the news as they went along, birthing idiots like Bill O'Reilly, That Goldenflame child molestor/commentator and some others of dubious intelligence or motives.
Being gay is a choice. Just like breathing is a choice. See, I can choose not to breathe: (one...two...three..four)
Gasp.
I was not surprised to hear these comments...as I am not surprised very often by dumb comments made by celebrities and athletes...let alone our elected officials...
Their is plenty of ignorance and stupidity to go around.
Bradley
The Egel Nest
Bradley and Metro! Thanks for stopping by gentlemen...loved both of your comments.
Because I appreciate intelligent discourse, and because I am basically I lazy, lazy person, I went over to my brother "Greenthumb"'s site and lifted this comment that I made there a couple of months ago. It is a somewhat different perspective. I ain't trying to start nothin', I'm just sayin':
Susie commented at 2:22 PM~
I love you, the greenie I've gotten to know on your blog, and through email. And I'm going to disagree with you and I guess with everyone here. Sort of. I know gay people, yourself included, who by every indication, were born gay. I think some day we will find the gene, or the chemical or the brain difference that provides more scientific support for that premise. (I have heard there is already such research; some of you may be more up to date on it than I am.) However, I also have known people who have chosen to be gay. People whose early attraction experiences, whose fantasies, whose every expectation was that they would be with someone of the opposite sex. And then life happened. And the experiences that they had with the opposite sex were horrendous enough, and there were enough of them, that they said, "That's it. I'm not doing that anymore." And they did decide to become gay. To actually work on increasing same-sex attraction. I'm not saying this to argue; I do believe that most people who identify as gay were born that way. However, I absolutely know that some people who are now thoroughly gay, were not born that way. They should be loved and accepted, too, and free to tell their stories without being accused of lying or denying. We are complex; especially in matters of sexual attraction and expression. I think it's less important how someone came to be who they are, than that we make sure that we treat one another with respect and dignity. I am speaking based on relationships with lesbian women who have been almost silenced about how they came to be lesbian, because they were told they were denying their true selves. Not so; life led them to need to become some other "true" self.
That's what I have to say. Hearts are in the right place, here, for sure, even where there are points of disagreement.
Dear Susie...I do disagree with you on this point...people can feign being gay like the young college girls who "decide" to be lesbians ( for a semester) to be cutting edge --and there are people (bisexuals) who can love and have sex with either gender...that's a different story.
But no one has sex with a person of the same sex unless they are gay or bi and no one has sex with the opposite sex unless they are hetero or bisexual.
I love and adore women but no amount of "trying" could make me a lesbian. No amount of failed marriages or bad men in my life could make me find a vagina attractive when I am in love with a penis.
Odd occurrences do happen. People who are housed with only the same sex like prisons, prep schools etc. are literally forced to experience their sexuality with their own sex.
Women or men who have been brought up to believe that anything but straight marriage is a sin and an abomination do try to fit into society. They suppress and deny their true selves for years. They can even convince themselves they are straight when they are not.
Even after 40 years of straight marriage we can find people who choose to stop fighting their deepest self...and come out. They were always gay, just putting in a heroic performance of being straight for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes (with teens for example) they commit suicide rather than accept their true sexual identity. Suicide is the choice of a large portion of gay teens who are trying to stop their pain. Such a shame.
My friends tried so hard to be straight, to make their parents happy, their siblings happy, to make themselves be able to have a life with out ridicule and scorn...but you cannot truly be what you are not.
Simple but true.
If you take sex out of the equation, women have always been able to be tender, affectionate and loving to other women without facing any scorn or ridicule. They have been able to do lots of things with other women that would be frowned upon if they were men. (Like going to the ladies room in tandem...!)
Thousands of marriages and relationships between a man and a woman are horrid and nasty and awful, but even that experience cannot make you learn how to love the same sex in a sexual way.
Susie, Are you speaking of bisexuals?
Bisexuals are a different category. I don't know bisexuals very well, wish I did, and I don't particularly understand how someone can be that democratic that either sex can fulfill such deep emotions, physical satisfaction and brain chemical compatibility. But I want to know!
But I do know that sexuality is a continuum with some folks way on the hetero or nothing end and some folks gay or nothing and some folks in the middle.
If you are talking about the bell curve of sexuality then perhaps you've seen people in the middle area who could go both ways.
People like me or my gay friends cannot and there isn't anything in this world that can change us.
So for the end of the continuum ( me =hetero, friends =homo), we yam what we yam and it is evident from our first choice of toys, clothing, activities, heroes, sexual interest.
Perhaps you are meeting people (like my friends) so good, so spiritual, loving, kind, such incredible human beings that they did everything in their power to deny the truth about who they really were.
And that might not be something they are ready or able to admit to yet.
Bisexuals become solidly and profoundly hetero or homo depending upon who they love. (So I've been told.) and don't desire one sex while in a relationship with the other sex.
So bisexuals out there in blogland, would you please help us with this? I know straight very well, and I know gay very well, from family and friends, but I don't know bisexual well...I accept anonymous comments so if you read this and want to remain anonymous feel free. I would truly love to know about what makes a person bisexual...and if you feel you were born that way?
I totally agree with you Susie, on the respect and dignity issue which is why I am a crusader for the civil right to be married for all adult people including gays and lesbians.
The sanctity of my marriage will always be diminished by the fact other consenting adults are not allowed to marry the person of their choice only because of having the same genitalia.
But hey, Canada is a wonderful role model for us to follow. I hope soon that I can share with all my blog friends the marriage of my best friends who've been together for many many years.
Great discussion Susie!
Now, let me start by stating that I really dig Susie and agree with so much of what she states and the heart and temperance that she conducts herself as well...She's awesome! But I don't agree here.... Please don't be angry w/me, girl...
"That's it. I'm not doing that anymore." And they did decide to become gay. It seems ludicrous if you know any gay people well.
I know people that have been scarred by life and choose to live with same sex people and they may even feel intimacy but they're not gay.
Gay is not nurture but nature. I have known gay men and women all of my life. They have been my family and my friends and they still are. Not one of them could abide such a seemingly trivial flip into being gay.
They struggled with trying to please their families and society and tried as hard as they could to be straight. They ruined their young lives or tortured themselves for decades in order to fit in... Not one of them would have decided to be gay at that point, no matter how rotten the opposite sex was to them.
I've had some horrific and even abusive boyfriends and lovers. Those experiences wouldn't be able to make me gay when I'm a lover of men through and through. It just made me want to make better partner choices.
The people that supposedly chose to be gay? If anything, those people may have never admitted to themselves their initial proclivites and thusly were able to seem like they made a reactionary and conscious choice to be a gay person.
I don't want people to think that gay people are living a "lifestyle" that they are choosing to be "deviant" or odd. That they even have any power over it is just not possible.
CM, bradley...Awesome! You dudes are the best manhood has to offer. I love that about you...love it. Now, that is sexy.
MB and LB, I am not speaking of bisexuality. I agree that bisexuality is a separate, and poorly understand segment of the population. And LB, I am speaking of people that I have known very, very well for many years, gay people who have confided in me, both personally and professionally of how they are not free to be themselves in the gay community because they do not believe they were born that way. The stories that they tell, again, about their earliest experiences of fantasy, attraction, masturbation, support their claims. And more importantly, from my perspective, it is THEIR story, not mine, nor yours, to tell them that they are wrong or in denial or any such thing. My position is that it's not black and white. It's not either/or, for some. I have seen pain and shame inflicted upon some gay-by-choice people who are dear to me, by those who are militant about "how to be gay." From where I sit, there is a need for even more open-mindedness than you are calling for, about this issue.
Like you, MB, I cannot personally imagine choosing to be gay. It is helpful to me in understanding this to think of us all as being on a continuum of sexual orientation, from extremely hetero to extremely homo. The very, very ends of the continuum may be haters/homophobic, or may be like "Queer Nation" militant types. Those of us just a little more toward the middle (from either end) are what we are, and while we have no "problem" with people being other than we are, we really can't imagine sexual attraction that is other than our natural orientation. (Bisexuals that I have known, while attracted to both, do express a preference.) Maybe it's those few in the middle who are truly capable of choosing. I don't know. What I do know is that I'm not going to presume to tell someone who says, "It's my choice," "Oh, no you're wrong about that, you were born that way and you're just denying that." That feels condescending and just plain wrong to me.
I do understand that we know what we know through the filters of our own life experience, and obviously, we have met different people with different stories. I certainly agree that most of us are "born" what we are, but, and I will admit, I was extremely surprised to learn this, I have come to understand that some people do have the ability to choose, and to change. I consider each individual the expert, the authority, on their own sexuality, and I'm not about to tell them that I know better than they about the origin of their orientation.
Susie my dear, I cannot allow the idea that true, 100% straight people are able to be "turned" into gay people --be propagated.
This is the exact fear that causes hate crimes and bigotry. This seemingly innocuous idea has kept gays and lesbians restricted to second class citizenship --if not the closet --for years.
The idea that people choose to be gay who were born straight does not fit with psychology, physiology, or any other ology except maybe theology which I don't want to delve into in depth.
When you talk about life filters, it is imperative that you factor in your deep religious beliefs.
I don't know what church you belong to, but I do know most churches are not pro-gay. Oh they may say things like: hate the sin, love the sinner and that is supposed to be interpreted as a wonderful tolerance...but I think that statement stinks.
I don't think gays are sinners anymore than straights are sinners, there are sinners everywhere and saints everywhere but it is not because of their sexual orientation.
There are religious groups that swear they turned homosexual people into straight people..and that is utterly absurd.
Not you, I know, but gay haters have used the "choice" thing for years..."they choose to be gay; they have a gay agenda, gay is their preference." Untrue. Hateful buzz words, again, I know that is not your intention.
When choice becomes involved it frightens the shit out of people. Jesus, maybe I can turn gay; maybe my wife will turn gay; maybe my kid will turn gay because his grandma loves him so much or he doesn't like sports. maybe his teacher will turn him gay, maybe his pastor?...and all kinds of outrageous and unfounded fears.
I have to continue to vehemently support my argument that you cannot "turn" gay because that plays into the worst fears of society and creates the worst bigots and a climate of hate. And it is not true: That fear of turning gay has ruined children's lives, the little boy who likes to make puppets or the little girl who wants to play basketball.
(One thing to note here; girls are somehow allowed to play sports and not be labeled as "queer" when little boys who like to make puppets or sew dresses are given huge amounts of negative input on why that desire is not right.)
Most people are raised by heterosexual parents ergo their introduction to sex is almost uniformly heterosexual sexuality.
Almost all children are "recruited" to be straight, exposed to straight parents,movies, relatives, literature, billboards, music lyrics, etc. Therefore their first sexual stirrings could very well be incited by what we might call heterosexual images. (My gay friends would create a scenario in their minds that would always change the she to a he, whether a song, movie book etc.)
So one might interpet their loving a song or movie as proof they were actually straight when in fact they had a rich fantasy life, private and quiet that allowed their true selves to exist and flourish.
Michael Jackson used pornographic pictures of women to loosen up his child victims but Michael Jackson could give a rat's ass about a real woman or even a female child...he's into male children as we all know.
Actually I think we are agreeing here when you say: Maybe it's those few in the middle who are truly capable of choosing. (yes, my point!)
Those in the middle are what I'm calling bisexual and yes, they can be equally sexual and comfortable with both sexes. And yes, they are not the majority.
(Where are you bisexuals!!! I would love to pick your brains and welcome you to Tchotchkes to educate us on subjects we aren't familiar with.)
You say: I was extremely surprised to learn this, I have come to understand that some people do have the ability to choose, and to change. I consider each individual the expert, the authority, on their own sexuality, and I'm not about to tell them that I know better than they about the origin of their orientation.
I wouldn't tell them anything either. I would wonder why they put so much emphasis on convincing you they once were straight and then I'd figure out what their problem was.
But, big But, gay people cannot be turned into straights and straight people cannot be turned into gays - not possible. The only choice they have is either hiding who they are or accepting who they are.
So I think we are talking about either bisexuals...(those people in the middle) or people with deep religious convictions, family shame etc. that struggle with their churches, parents, society scorning them, sending them to "hell" and not being able to be honest, not even to you.
Maybe especially to you, someone they respect and admire - someone who they know is a devout Christian and who they might percieve as having a Christian bias against homosexuality.
My best friends who I've referred to as Doc and DJ in past posts...Doc is in fact a doctor - there are visible anomalies in the brain scans of gay men; there are anomalies in lesbians that are not up for discussion because they exist and cannot be denied.
These are the gay people I'm speaking about, absolutely born gay and no way in hell are you going to change them. There are straight people like me - who will never cuddle a breast or stroke a vagina because I find that incongruent with my inherent sexual orientation. (I guess my brain scan would show my heterosexual nature.)
I cannot swing both ways because I cannot...
I'm what I'm calling straight. People like me will never turn gay. It would be as sensible as saying that a black man under certain circumstances can choose to be white and abracadabra - his skin turns white!
Any other situation or person is either fooling you, protecting you or ashamed to admit to you the truth -- or as you say, falls into that middle group - the group we both agree has the capacity to be sexual with either sex.
Maybe there are more bisexuals out there than you or I know of - but gay people don't choose to be straight and straight people don't choose to be gay...straight people don't choose to be straight and gay people don't choose to be gay. No choice involved.
So, we're back to bisexuals (the people you say are in the middle of the continuum.)
Oh and that continuum I speak of, I don't think either far end is a hater as you mention, has nothing to do with homophobia --just 100% gay or 100% straight. I'm on one end and adore many people on the other end - vice versa - so hate doesn't come into play from either side...just people who can't choose or change their sexual orientation for love or money or salvation or any other reason on this earth.
Wow, I typed so much my mouth is dry!
Wow! This is one of those conversations that frustrates me because it would be so much more satisfying in person, where we could interrupt and clarify, and get the nonverbals, etc.
I'm talking about a couple of close friends. And I'm talking about a handful of clients (out of hundreds). For a time my practice was located in a gay community, so I had a full caseload of gay clients. Most, by FAR were born that way. Some were not. I can't agree with something when I've seen different. And I do understand that you accept the "accepted" viewpoint that sexual orientation is 100% from birth or before; I used to believe that, too, until I met people who taught me differently.
You're bringing religion into a discussion where, from my perspective, it's not a factor. However, FYI, since you did introduce it, my denomination is openly accepting of gays, in fact, believes as you do, that "they were born that way." My church is very gay-inclusive, has a lot of gay members, leaders, etc. Indeed, that stance is one of the reasons I chose this particular church.
I completely accept that YOU cannot change; neither can I. But I won't presume to tell other people what THEY can or can't do. I'll accept their own expertise on their sexual history. That's all I'm saying.
"Any other situation or person is either fooling you, protecting you or ashamed to admit to you the truth -- or as you say, falls into that middle group - the group we both agree has the capacity to be sexual with either sex." I don't quite know what to say to such a statement. I'm not all that easily fooled; there's nothing here I need protection from, and the relationships in which people have revealed the way they've been mistreated by absolutists on this subject are intimate, either therapeutic or dear friends, loving relationships -- there's no shame there, except, as I've said, the shame that they were made to feel by people who did not allow them the respect of acknowledging that they would know best about their own situations. Please understand, I don't even say this is prevalent. I just say that I had to move from my own absolutist position on the subject when I encountered people whose stories didn't fit. I'm not talking about bisexuality; that's a whole different situation. These people are one-way only, now.
"I would wonder why they put so much emphasis on convincing you they once were straight and then I'd figure out what their problem was." MB, that just doesn't sound like you. They told me their stories because they sensed that I was open enough to not try to persuade them that their reality wasn't real. And I certainly didn't assume that they had a "problem." In fact, they weren't troubled people at all, by that time; except by the fact that they were forced to remain "in the closet" about their backgrounds.
To address a couple of your other points, I am not aware of theology taking any one position over another on this matter of "choice or not choice." You may have some info I don't have there.
I do understand that re-opening the possibility of sexual orientation being a choice stirs fear in some people. To that, I say, too bad. Avoidance of fear is not a good reason to stick with a position.
I am bothering with this, because some people I love have been hurt and shamed by the absolute views expressed here. I do tend to speak up when people I love are hurt. Not that you have hurt them, but the black-and-white thinking expressed here has hurt them, made their experiences, their stories less valid than other, more "traditional" stories.
As perhaps you can see, I'm not embraced by either "liberals" or "conservatives," Republicans or Democrats, nobody wants me in their club; I don't fit neatly into the boxes. Maybe that's why it is not so hard for me to believe that sexuality can't be that easily boxed and labelled, either. We are each unique, perhaps in no area moreso than sexual attraction and expression.
MB, I love the fact that you post such hot topics. I also love the debates that go on here. Thanks.
I am no where as articulate as Susie, MB or Laurenbove. You three seem to me to be the most intelligent bloggers (with Nilbo)that I follow.
This "debate" in the comments section appears to me (remember I am an idiot) to be a who knows more gay people debate. "Oh yea, well I have 12 gay friends." Oh yea well I have 13 gay friends."
Susie said that she knows people who made a choice. Why is that wrong? I have to trust that Susie is being honest with he comments. I mean Sheesh look at the length of them.
MB is it okay for a BORN gay man, to make the choice not be an "out"gay. To get married and have kids. To live a normal life? I mean if he made that choice, is it wrong? Sure he is still born gay but he made the choice to remain straight, for whatever reasons?
you said"Even after 40 years of straight marriage we can find people who choose to stop fighting their deepest self...and come out. They were always gay, just putting in a heroic performance of being straight for a variety of reasons.'
Just to clarify this statement..Is it only heroic if they come out? Or could it also be heroic to stay in? And then ...wouldn't that bea choice?
Jeeze William (thanks for your praise by the way)...I think it would be tragic if they stayed in. Not only does it further the underlying, damaging and false statement that gay men/women aren't normal and have something to hide but it's a big fat lie. A lie to the self and a lie to the spouse and children. A lie to everyone.
I don't think you could live a happy well adjusted life if you had to - every day every minute stuff down your deepest self. Tragic. Lonely to the soul. So unfair. Gay people should be just as free to be themselves and not make fear and lack of acceptance force them to brave the life of a lie.
Regarding Susie's comment and MB's retort. I can only say that it's very interesting and both sides have said some important things. In my personal experience I would have to say I have only seen gay straight and bisexual people. I've never met or heard of anyone that floated inbetween these descriptions. I guess in my limited reference point I'd have to say anyone that could go from straight to gay would be definition BE bisexual. That sort of eliminates the entire argument for me, I guess.
Everyone was very articulate and respectful and I do love Tchotchkes for that open and welcoming forum. Thanks for that MB.
Susie, William, Lauren - it's obvious all four of us have a great interest in the origins of homosexuality.
I have to say that LB said it the most succinctly and easiest to understand when she pointed out there are three known sexual orientations: straight people, gay people, and people who are capable of having sex with both genders which we call bisexuals.
I think the rest of the words written (including mine, are just semantics.)
The internet has numerous reputable articles that expound on the fact that people are born with their sexual orientation, wherever it falls on the continuum, gay, straight or bi.
William says: "This "debate" in the comments section appears to me (remember I am an idiot) to be a who knows more gay people debate" -
William -- that is wrong in two ways.
One, William you are not an idiot!
And, Two I am not talking about anecdotal evidence -- rather scientific evidence...the latest one is on pheremones (female horse urine and male sweat - with gay males physiologically aroused by the male sweat odor and gay females physiologically aroused by the female horse urine pheremone.)
Numerous articles can be found on physiological and biochemical indicators found in homosexuals: hypothalmus changes, pulse rates, eye blinks, length of index fingers etc. etc.
As science continues to answer questions that anecdotal observation cannot, we will have no need for this discussion in the future.
I have been active in gay rights for many years and am committed to working for complete and total civil rights for all people regardless of color, religion or lack of religion, sex, sexual orientation, disability, etc.
I consider this quest one of my "callings" so to speak and look forward to a day when we all are truly equal under the law.
Well, I hear that, sister!
You know what I love? That Susie, MB and LB can have an intelligent discussion and disagree while being entirely respectful to each other.
I admire you all.
Hey LB - let's hope some day we live long enough to see total equality!
Metro my dear man, thank you for the compliment...I happen to know that WE all admire you!
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