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Wednesday, November 02, 2005

Lucky Men - Sometimes Not So Lucky


Yesterday I thought a lot about how guys are so lucky when it comes to bridal showers versus stags. I was stomping around the house, bitching and moaning to myself about how guys had it all, when I remembered something that many of them don’t have: their foreskin.

When is this going to stop? When are we going to stop chopping off a piece of a normal, infant male for religious purposes, cultural purposes or any other reason?

A botched circumcision done to local baby boy…resulted in removal of most of his penis. He will never be normal. And why? Because his parents wanted him to look like all the other boys in the shower.

First of all, all the other boys are not necessarily circumcised. Secondly, we have placed huge pressure on third world countries to stop circumcising female babies, why not put some of this pressure upon people here? Why is it fine and dandy to snip away at a boy baby and not a girl baby?

Religious people who believe that man is made in the image of god, should be the first people to say no more ritual mutilation of male infants.

Religions that require circumcision of male infants might want to rethink such an act. What might have been a cool rite way back when and may have served a purpose could very well be barbaric and sadistic today.

(I don’t think that penis tops and religion should be that enmeshed for any reason. But, remember I am not a religious person so I have no idea what following a religion can make a person do willingly and with righteousness.)

I do wonder though why a symbolic circumcision couldn’t be done rather than a physical removal of perfect baby flesh? Would god be less pleased? Couldn’t the baby be allowed to grow to manhood and then decide for himself? (One sure way of reducing circumcision!)

I know that religions that call “communion” the body and blood of jesus do not use real blood or flesh– just wine and some sort of flat bread.

Couldn’t the symbol replace the actual in the 21st century?

I think of the exquisite beauty of a new born baby and wonder why anyone would want to alter this perfect being in its first few weeks of life. Or why any parent could decide for the man-to-be that he shouldn’t have or wouldn’t want his foreskin.

The old idea of “cleanliness reasons” is the same reason females of third world countries have been circumcised for years. So if that really were the case, both male and female infants should be snipped, scraped and formed into new “easy-to-clean” genitalia at birth.

The American Academy Of Pediatrics is against routine circumcision and states: "Circumcision is not essential to a child's well-being at birth, even though it does have some potential medical benefits," said task force chair Dr. Carole Lannon.

Other task force members have stated that this was a difficult issue to tackle due to religious and cultural feelings about circumcision.

Well, it isn’t difficult for me to tackle.

While musing how men had it all, it reminded me that if I were a man, and someone without my permission removed part of my penis for any reason, I’d be mighty pissed.

Worse, I’d wonder my whole life what it would have been like to be exactly as I was born before such surgery.

A friend once said to me: “Circumcision is just something that people do and we can’t stop doing it mid-stream. Sons of circumcised men have to look like their fathers and younger sons have to look like their older brothers so it will never end. It’s not good to look different.”

I say stop looking at your father’s penis or your brother’s penis or penises in the shower at school -- and it can be stopped. Of course it can.

As a woman, I can’t imagine how I’d feel if before I could speak someone had decided to tidy-up, alter, sculpt or refashion my vagina for any reason.

I guess at least in this country vaginas are safe, and for that reason I’m glad I’m a woman, even if I do have to go to a boring shower.

32 Comments:

Blogger Ilanna said...

Well, i'm not going to debate the whole should you shouldn't you thing... everyone is entitled to opinions religions etc...

what i WILL state though :) is i bet that botched one was done by a dr. (though i haven't read the story so i can't be sure.) It's funny, my mom said, NEVER take your son to a dr. to get circumcised. They don't do it enough. You go to a mohel, that's ALL they do and they are good at it... but that's another topic...

12:04 PM  
Blogger kristen said...

I don't know how I feel about this one frankly MMM, because I personally like the looks of a circumcised peenie rather than not. I hope I don't get bashed here for that, but it's true. There's a whole trend in CA though, to not circumcise, most of my friends with boys out there didn't so I think the tides are changing.

12:09 PM  
Blogger Nilbo said...

When most people think of circumcision as a religious tenet, they arrive at Judaism - in which the tenet is so strong that adult males wishing to convert must undergo the ritual. And it IS a ritual; if you've never attended a bris, you might not have a clear picture of the importance of this act in the Jewish faith; it symbolizes a unique covenant with God.

The ritual goes back to the time of Abraham - and while many reform Jews don't keep kosher or follow some of the other strictures of their faith, this one seems to be fairly immutable. It ain't going away any time soon.

No point trying to inject common sense into matters of faith - as we have learned from the debates over evolution, creation, and "intelligent design".

As for being "mightily pissed" or spending a life wondering what it'd be like to have the rest of my penis - I have to say, it really doesn't come up much. The question, I mean.

For my part, I'm glad I'm circumcised. If I'm gonna have the little fellow making so many decisions for me, I'd just as soon the orders were clear and not muffled.

And too funny - my verification code: sukzf

So, Ziggy Feldstein - step right up!

12:15 PM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

ilanna, it is a touchy subject (no pun intended) but I often think about things that are controversial. So then I write about them.

AMK - I like the peenie all the ways, interesting comment about CA.

Nilbo, thanks for the info. I'm glad it's only the question that doesn't come up often 8-)

I figure if things ever are to change, then talking about them has to come first. I still wonder why all the religious parts couldn't remain with a symbolic circumcision...to represent the symbol of the covenant...of which you speak.

Your verification code is funny as is mine: czzorzik

12:59 PM  
Blogger Ern said...

Male circumcision is a bit different than female circumcision, which is a euphemism for genital mutilation. For females, they cut off the entire clitoris, which robs a woman of almost all of her sexual pleasure in adulthood.

I have heard it said that sex is more pleasurable for a man who isn't circumcised, but I don't hear any circumcised men complaining of difficulty coming to orgasm.

Just my two cents.

1:17 PM  
Blogger dashababy said...

I have always wondered about this too. Why is it that they have to do this when they are babies? Why not let them make their own choice?
It does seem very barbaric. I remember when my son was circumcised at 3 days old, it was like ripping my heart out to see him strapped down. This is truly one of the most traumatic experiences of my life even tho he has no conscious recollection of it happening. He was not happy. I don't even really like talking about it. I was too young and dumb at the time but if someone had told me I had a choice, I might have done things differently.

Nilbo cracked me up........." I'd just as soon the orders were clear and not muffled."

1:39 PM  
Blogger Weetzie said...

My two cents: we went the "natural" route with first born only to have to do the "snip" when he was 4 b/c he developed adhesions. Having a circumcision at 4 years old is worse than having it as a baby ... for him and for me and hubby! Oh the guilt of making that decision.

2:06 PM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

Ern - how right you are...most female circumcisions remove the clitoris...oy yoy yoy..just thinking about that makes me hurt.

Dashababy...I adored that comment from Nilbo too. I had daughters, but if I'd have had sons, I would have left them alone -- easy to say when you have daughters...I know.

Weetzie - Oh how awful that your son had to have it done later. Poor little guy - we women always feel badly about our decisions no matter what we do!

2:25 PM  
Blogger Echrai said...

Bleh. I posted (or tried) this wonderful comment yesterday, comparing female circumcision and male circumcision (I'm actually in favor of the latter for various reasons) and then Blogger "couldn't find the site" and silly me, I hadn't copied it, so instead you get this "I had great comments but I lost them" comment. :)

8:19 AM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

Summer, I knew what you meant! I still wonder what is wrong with male newborns that needs to be fixed and requires cosmetic surgery? A friend with a female infant had to her the baby's urethra stretched...but they didn't remove parts of her genitalia...

Years ago, so saith Grandma, only the rich kids (as in gentiles) were circumcised...the poor one's families couldn't afford the extra money, so circumcision was like braces 30 years ago, a symbol of wealth. Love love your word verification..I swear these letters are not random and someone's having fun effing with us.

Echrai, sorry you lost your post - annoying as hell when that happens.

I wonder how intelligent design fans feel about circumcision...

8:35 AM  
Blogger Ilanna said...

a - for the ritual - as an adult male converting to judaism - if they are not circumcised they need to be. If they ARE, then a ritual "pricking" is done to represent the circumcision. (fun huh?)

I love the taking orders comment - that was great.

As for doing it when they are babies - it's easier on all involved to be honest. Jews just get the kid drunk and do it quick. :)

10:41 AM  
Blogger Steve said...

Maybe I am just old school here, but I prefer to be without the hood.

And I think most guys feel the same way.

And most of the women who has been gracious to let me show my penis too (the few), as well as those who I have had the conversation with (the many), are also on the side of the non-hooded member.

And finally, I think since most guys (I know of, at least) have had it done, then tend to want their sons to have it done... avoids strange questions and based on personal bias from their own experience.

And that's all I got to say about that.

2:26 PM  
Blogger Sylow_P said...

I think 'old school' would dictate hooded.

My father is not, but his sons are indeed snipped. My nephew is not, lucky for him. While it's true that failing to teach a kid how to clean himself can cause some weird shit (my cousin's started to grow shut!), that hood has a protective purpose. It cuts down on the day to day banging around that could otherwise cause a loss of sensitivity in the purple helmet within.

Anyone ever read any studies on erectile dysfunction among snipped vs unsnipped men?

3:31 PM  
Blogger Michael Brenner said...

I think there are a number of misconceptions here. This is not, in fact, a very controversial practice. It is only controversial insofar as there is a medical debate over whether there are health benefits and whether there is any sexual imposition.

The number of botched circumcisions is exceedingly small. There is no movement of Jewish men pining for their lost foreskins; only secularists who for whatever reason don't like it. Sexually, the word is that circumcision makes orgasm harder to achieve. This is usually thought of as a good thing, not a bad thing, particularly amongst women.

To say that a choice should be given is misleading. Particularly in the religious context, we don't give children choices growing up. We pass on tradition. Jews don't tell a five-year-old that he has the option of becoming Christian. Catholics don't make speeches at first communion about the pros and cons of Hinduism and Buddhism. So calling for parents to let children decide for themselves, besides creating a situation where circumcision is going more painful, does not make sense.

It is also hardly a good argument to compare male and female circumcision. Though female circumcision is indeed much more invasive and virtually removes the ability of a woman to experience sexual pleasure, its major problem is that it is practiced most widely in third-world countries where modern medicine is not available and results in a high incidence of infection. Many women around the world have stood up to condemn the practice on these grounds, and on grounds that it perpetuates chauvinistic patriarchical society.

To make a long story short: Do not feel sorry for us; we do not feel sorry for ourselves.

10:12 AM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

ilanna, I have a friend who studies every week with a rabbi and has for years, is completely committed to judaism, except he won't be circumcised. So he participates in every way except converting --which he isn't allowed to do without the snipping.

One good thing is there isn't a religion that *requires* foreskin, because it's easier to get rid of it then to sew it back on!

JDJ - one vote for the hoodless!

Sylow, I don't know about studies on sexual function, but I would think that if hoodless, one would lose sensitivity and as Michael says: that could be interpreted as a good thing by prolonging orgasm.

I do know a few men who feel the practice is wrong (not Jews, just plain old circumcised guys) and they wish something wasn't done to them as infants that would be against their current adult will.

Michael, I don't think devout Jews would want to be uncircumcised as it is incompatible with their religion. Basically, as I said above, the ones that seem unhappy are gentiles, with no powerful reason for being circumcised other than what's in fashion.

We used to sacrifice virgins...now we fast or give something up for lent, so things do change over time.


I brought up religious reasons because I can see a day in the future when religious circumcision could be performed in a symbolic way as in the pricking ilanna speaks of..

Nilbo was quite informative in his commentary as to the importance of such rites in the Jewish religion, but I maintain, if non-Jews are circumcising male infants for no good reason, one might consider allowing one's son to decide for himself if he wants this surgery when he's old enough to understand what the process is.

Personally, I wouldn't want something done to me as an infant to save me pain as an adult...(I do know some women who have elective mastectomies due to a family history of breast cancer...me, I'd take my chances.)

When you say don't feel sorry for us, I'm not sure who the us is. If you are speaking for Jewish men, well of course I don't feel sorry for you...you are following your religion and believe what was done was necessary to be close to god (if I understood Nilbo correctly) - I do feel sorry for baby boys who aren't given a choice and there are NO religious reasons for removing skin from their bodies.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

And, I am jolly well happy with my vagina as is!

2:07 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

The Best Thing To Do With A Baby Penis Is Nothing.

The health issues of adhesions etc. are from the uneeded practice of retracting baby foreskin for cleaning, before it is ready and able to do so. The best thing to do with a baby penis is nothing. It is not a dirty thing that needs to be fooled with and scrubbed. When the child is old enough to clean his own body, his foreskin will be matured enough to retract and he can clean it himself. Isn't that serindipidous? Ya gotta love nature.

I think the act of removing any kind of harmless and natural skin from a baby is barbaric and relatively antiquated. The first men to walk the earth were in fact uncut.

There was nothing wrong with you when you were born, men. Nothing. You were beautiful and precious and perfect just as you were. Slicing into your most delicate regions is hurtful and unneeded. A newborn infant has been though the traumatic event of birth having left his cozy and safe and warm "nest". That's enough to suffer for one so new to the world.

I think the penis is a fabulous thing. I've dated and even married men of both varietys. I think as far as cuteness and value, both are excellent. I prefer the uncut only b/c they are so much fun to play with and versitile. For me as a woman, the penis is a lot like a pizza. They're all good.

My baby boy is not circumcized and I practically had to write on his penis with magic marker "No Touch". He was in the NICU for 2 weeks and each day they'd tell me "The doctor's coming by today for S's circumcision." Jeebus! He was four pounds!!! His penis was so tiny and he already had tubes and IV's and and... I eventually grabbed his chart and wrote in RED ink block letters "NO CIRCUMCISION!" I don't think they liked me adding to his medical chart but I was too worried they'd cut his penis when I wasn't there, if I didn't do something to remind them.

For excellent uncut penis advice see the Australians. They rarely circumcise and when I was looking into the controversy (btw: if you want to know if it's a controversy or not, just look at these comments and on the web for other lenghty topical posts) of to cut or not to cut, when I was pregnant, I found very helpful info on Aussi healthboards.

3:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

,g.nboglhlhjhlhghlhhlthlhlhg.jk.hjkhnjhbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

3:17 PM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

LB - I love your: the penis is a lot like pizza comment! I can hear the passion in your words and agree wholeheartedly...

In this day of "embryo rights" and preborn rights, you'd think circumcision would be discussed more often.

I think it's terrible you were being coerced by hospital staff to do something you didn't morally agree with...

Is the S (2 years old) this very same young man you were speaking of?

I am thrilled that S came by and took the time to comment on such an important issue...

4:20 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

The one and the same!

;)

Thanks for the support. You're always so kind.

xoxo

5:52 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Oh and not wanting to be uninformed about the religious aspect I googled it and the first thing that came up was this: (So, I guess it's out there among the community as well.)

QUESTIONING CIRCUMCISION: A JEWISH PERSPECTIVE
Ronald Goldman, Ph.D.
Foreword by Rabbi Raymond Singer, Ph.D.

144 pages • illustrated • bibliography • index VANGUARD PUBLICATIONS, trade paper ISBN 0964489562


QUESTIONING CIRCUMCISION: A JEWISH PERSPECTIVE is the first critical examination of the growing controversy of male infant circumcision with special attention to contemporary concerns of the Jewish community. Endorsed by five rabbis, this extraordinary book examines the origins, assumed benefits, risks, and unrecognized consequences of the Jewish practice with thorough documentation and moving personal experiences.
Consider these facts:

* Circumcision is not universal among Jews.
* Jewish press articles have questioned circumcision.
* A male child born of a Jewish mother is a Jew, whether he is circumcised or not.
* Jewish circumcision has never had anything to do with health concerns.
* Circumcision conflicts with significant Jewish laws and values.
* An Israeli organization publicly opposes circumcision.

http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/book.htm

5:58 PM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

LB - you are the most purely free spirit I know...without any kind of "we have to do it, think it, live it, philosophy."

Not being religious, which means, I don't have an organized religion to which I must obey, I am at a loss for so much of what religion says we must do.

Recently I have decided, that my "religion" which is none!, deserves as much respect as I give other religions.

Just back from the site you mentioned and love to see people challenging "old thought".

I love a growing thinking universe...and I adore you personally for putting your beliefs on the line...they are as valid as any others expressed here.

And, they are also mine.

My mother used to say, explain what you are doing to an alien from another planet who doesn't have your biases and experiences.

What is the reason we do this to infant males, s'plain that to a Martian?

As I get older, I realize *I* do have a religion, mine is we are all one (Wells), we do things that don't make sense because of trying to separate ourselves from the simple fact: we are all one people. DNA proves it, as you have written about.

Trying to make ourselves unique through religion will eventually die, and we will all bond together, no matter what sex, color, creed, and become one unified powerful force.

I can only hope that this happens.

10:22 PM  
Blogger Kassi Gilbert said...

I asked my husband, since this issue would be more his concern than mine...and he has informed me that no, he does not pine for his 1/8 inch piece of flesh that he lost as an infant. No angst here.

Though I will say that there is a distinct difference between cutting away a bit of flesh, and stamping out an entire life.

12:09 AM  
Blogger Sylow_P said...

I tried to walk away Mary, but I just couldn't do it. Michael Brenner I find your argument offensive.

You claim that it's okay for men to lose sensitivity because, it could please women, because we 'last longer'.

That is identical to saying I should have my wife's clitoris cut out to prevent her frome being disappointed if I finish too soon. Maybe it would keep her from cheating too.

I think most Europeans will verify that the extra few thousand nerve endings doesn't prevent them from going the distance.

2:11 AM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

Hi Kassi - I guess it would be hard to miss something you never had...and what good is it to rue a circ when it's what you've got and can't change it. (Some men do rue their foreskin removal and some don't.)

In infants, however, we are making irrevocable choices for them if we choose to have a circ for no good reason.

Here's medical arguments for leaving infant males bodies alone:

Leave nature alone - whether you believe God created men with a foreskin, or nature simply evolved this way, there must be some reason men have foreskins. Why change something that God/nature has created?

Sensation and sexual pleasure - the foreskin is filled with nerves, and is therefore extremely sensitive to touch. This enhances sexual pleasure.

Protects the glans (head) of the penis - the glans is another highly sensitive area. The foreskin protects the glans from constant rubbing and chaffing against clothing that can desensitize it over the years. This preserves sexual pleasure.

Ethical issues - there are groups of people worldwide, including medical societies, that oppose routine circumcision because they feel it is unethical for a parent to decide to alter the penis of their child without the child's consent. Parents who are deciding whether or not to circumcise their son may wish to consider the impact this may have in the future if the child decides they wish they were not circumcised.

So, when making this decision, the first thing to ask yourself is this - "Do I have any good reason to circumcise my baby?" If your answer is for religious reasons, then follow your faith. If not, and you can't think of any other significant reason other than just "because", then consider the above information as you make your decision.

http://askdrsears.com/html/1/T012000.asp

7:58 AM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

Sylow, I value your opinions on issues and certainly would never want you to "walk away" from a post or a comment without expressing your views.

If one takes "religion" out of the mix, and one uses my mother's technique of questioning a "tradition", I would like to hear the argument one would express to this alien as to why we do this to newborn male infants. It would sound barbaric.

I don't care if it's 1/8 inch of skin as Kassi says, I wouldn't want 1/8 inch of my nose removed at birth or a fingernail for that fact. I know for me, I would want to be exactly as I was born and not tidied up or given a new look so I could match the look of someone else who had surgery at birth before they could consent.

I think circumcision is an issue that is very controversial and discussion on it is exactly what we need to do rather than clip and snip without thought.

8:09 AM  
Blogger Michael Brenner said...

Sylow:

You're misunderstanding me. I only made the comment about sexual sensitivity in response to oft-stated argument in the other direction that loss of sexual sensitivity is a reason to oppose circumcision.

I don't see how circumcision is unethical. Infants and young children have no legal right to make their own surgery decisions.

To the Martian, I would say that Jews are a people who believe in G-d and the Torah, and that circumcision is a symbol in our religion of our covenant with G-d. If he doesn't understand me, that's not my problem.

4:23 PM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

Michael, what I said was:
"If one takes *"religion"* out of the mix, and one uses my mother's technique of questioning a "tradition", I would like to hear the argument one would express to this alien as to why we do this to newborn male infants. It would sound barbaric."

Also, most surgeries if not all surgeries performed on children are not elective surgery...it's to fix some problem. Elective, body modification surgery done to an infant is a big deal if you aren't religious or if your religion doesn't mandate circumcision.

6:35 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Who said anything about pining for foreskin?

I think the fundamental argument of circumcision is getting mixed up. No one needs to stick up for their penises here and get defensive about them.

I'm sure they're all great and loved. I don't think MB or anyone is under the assumption that cut men (Jewish or otherwise) are upset and miss their foreskin. That's just silly!

It's a common fact that men really love their penises. I've never met a one (gay, straight, young or old) that didn't really dig their stuff. My S is already fascinated and amused by his.

The issue at hand is not about pining, but about the practice itself. With what we know now, today...in our modern times... Is it still logical and mandatory? That's the question. It's an intelligent one to ponder.

Wee newborns are not able to make decisions about any aspect of their life. They are absolutely dependant upon their adults to care for them and make good and safe and thoughtful choices for them.

Is it not acceptable, reasonable and responsible that adults might have considerations to make about having something unnecessarily cut off their precious tiny babies?

It's an obvious talking point.

It's imperitive that modern societies revisit and discuss ancient practices and rethink their meaning in our lives... on this topic and many others, regardless of their religious signigicance! It's our duty as guardians.

Just doing something because its something we've always done, and we're not going to reconsider it under current day...ever ever ever, no no no... seems foolish. Blind.

God, Goddess, Nature, our mothers, whatever...gave us brains to use. So Truly, Think. Consider. Determine. Decide. Act. It's a good thing.

(notice I haven't said to do or not do...just open up and think.)

10:46 AM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

LB - I have heard guys say that natural penii look longer!!! than those that have been circed!

Seriously, I do agree with you - my point of this particular post was to share the fact that I was thinking about routine circumcision and wondering why we have to do that in this modern age.

Following what was done before without thinking makes us sheep. As you say, weigh the information available and make your choice...but at least think about it a teeny bit.

12:53 PM  
Blogger jac said...

MB
I just came in to see what dear old Mary is up to for i have not seen her for some time. Here I am in the middle of a subject I couldn’t shy away with. You really dig up and find out interesting and controversial subjects in your page with heated up arguments to and fro.
First of all I am not an authority to swear on things that I say here, as, all my information are not from books but based on simple logic and feed back from of those countries I have worked and visited.
I have spent long periods in the Moslem gulf countries and in Africa too where Moslem population is of considerable number
It is true in some of these countries; circumcisions for male and female was made to understand are of religious nature. The truth is that though the male circumcision can be connected to religious nature, the female one definitely has no connection what ever in the holy books. I don’t know much about the Jewish customs though I do know they circumcise.
Male
At the beginning of the Moslem era the life style and area where the religion is originated makes a lot of difference. As far as I know the climatic conditions were severe and the possibility of proper hygiene was not possible with a group of nomads… men and woman traveling on Camels for months before they reach an oasis, a place that has some water. Changing of clothes was rare, as the clothes were either leather or hard fiber. No body could be blamed for this and this made to implement strictures on hygiene, about cleaning their body before praying with water, or if water is not available with desert sand, in which germs can’t survive because of the lack of moisture.
Well! A man’s precious penis that has a natural hood has the disadvantage of accumulating filth and droplets of urine, if not cleaned properly has also made it a religious custom to remove a piece of this precious skin to be thrown away, in with desert sands as it was done by special religious people in the old times. For arguments sake let us agree, as I am not sure if any body is willing to testify about the pleasure difference before and after doing it.
Female
Quite opposite to the opinion of MB and a few others that I read here, that cutting of ‘clit’ is done for the purpose of hygiene or any thing connected with religion is wrong. It is also not true that this is practiced in third world countries, where medical facilities are few. Examples are Egypt, morocco and some of the gulf countries, where in the old times; it was made to believe as religious custom like male circumcision. I own a Koran for reference purposes and once I confronted a clergyman who started to argue with me, to show me the exact ‘Sura’ which asks woman to do circumcision. He meekly escaped saying that a foolish infidel like me will never understand things about their religion.
Personally I respect Moslems and many customs they follow.
I happen to discuss this issue with Dr Sarah Amina Mustafa, an eminent surgeon from Egypt who was traveling with me on a flight form Amman where she was attending a conference about this issue. She vehemently opposed the idea of female circumcision being connected with cleanliness or religion. To quote her exact words, that if it was done for hygiene, then it is better to cut off the whole genital organ(lock stock and barrel) and not just the ‘bud’… as the female ‘clit, which is partially exposed can’t accumulate more filth than the inner genitalia.
It was my assumption, as well as many Egyptians( with pride) with whom I have discussed this, that the ‘Clit’ being the most sensitive exposed area of a woman, is cut off to prevent having erotic sensations during the long camel rides rides. It is true if you consider the time when all this was started, a time when woman too were riding on Camels.
A woman can’t ride a camel sitting sideways like riding a donkey (sideways,) it can only be done by sitting as if in a horse with legs hanging on both sides. As you know camel’s back being uneven and rough, a woman riding it, tends to develop erotic sensations as if in ‘Kamsutra position’. This has made the old clergy to spread the word that it is done as per religion like the man for hygiene.
I am sure that I may loose a few readers because of this statement, but then I do not shy away from speaking my mind.
MB, I apologise for the space.

8:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Circumcision on newborns is flat out wrong.Why would any parent want to take sensation away from their baby.Because daddy says it's ok What a joke.How do u know if the baby wants his foreskin latter on.
For females who say they like the cut look better,and they are entitled to their opinion,cut off ur own clitoral hood first.It's the same identical thing.Male and female genitals are different yet the same.To cut one sex and not the other is wrong(the 14th amendment should protect boys,also.).So if u want to cut ur newborn boy,remember that if u have a girl u should have her clitoral hood removed.Sounds barbaric now doesn't it?
It is a practice that is so outdated and a lot of Americans are so so ignorant on the subject and I'm an American.This country is so screwed up when it comes to this.Americans as usual are behind the times.At least more people are talking about it and hopefully this so called tradition will change.At least the cut rate is going down. Ray

8:57 PM  
Blogger mary bishop said...

Jac and anon...thanks for your comments - I happen to agree that circumcision is a big deal and should be thought about and not just done as if it were something as simple as ear piercing.

9:07 AM  

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